Growing under lights

Growin to Harvesting

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mattfuzzy

Post by mattfuzzy »

i would say you could grow anything you wanted to with a 400w or 250w MH light with reflector (and ballast and all too) im going for a 400w because i will be using it as a strong all rounder for all types of growing and dont plan to buy another light for a few years but iv noticed chilli and tomato plants dont need much sunlight in comparrison to others.
natural direct sunlight produces (as far as i know) just under 10,000 lumens.
a 400w MH light can produce about 53,000 lumens... i know which one im going with :twisted:
-matt

koolguymike

Post by koolguymike »

Matt i think you are a bit confused as to what kind of light you are getting from HIDS. look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux
to see how to convert lumens to lux for your HID light and compair to the sunlight. if done proper you will see your 400w light is giving you around half the light you would get on a minumal sunny day.

hids are nice but no match to the sun.

mattfuzzy

Post by mattfuzzy »

cool!
so how comes things under lights... even a 250w will grow 5 times faster than they would in the sun? seriously if thats all it takes ill happily leave my plants outside all the time (half of which i already do) but they aint growin, yet someone using a 250w i know has em about 3 times taller and bushy as anything, nothings different either apart from the light. but yeah think i was misinformed as far as lumens and lux and all that, research time me thinks!
thanks for the link too :D
-matt

Micke

Post by Micke »

There are also the other outdoor factors, like shifting temperatures, overheating, frost... wind, rain, clouds, ozone etc...

Indoors you can keep your plants on an even humidity, even temperature, even supply of water, even artificial daylight...

mattfuzzy

Post by mattfuzzy »

well based on that wikipedia file, a grow room 1 X 1 metre's with a grow light of 1,000 lumens would equel 1,000 lux.
a mild sunny day is aprox 32,000 lux all the way up to 100,000 lux.
so all you need is a light somewhere between 32,000 and 100,000 in a grow room no more than a metre by a metre and you got the sun :D
so i guess weather factors (clouds and such) can really be the difference between 2 foot plants and 5 foot plants :D
-matt

tugela_tony

Post by tugela_tony »

another possibility is to get a digital ballast, at least some of them can run MH bulbs

Micke

Post by Micke »

Let's bounce some life in this thread again.

I've got hold of a 4x36W set up so that is what I'll be using I guess.

Anyway, is there a general rule with artificial lights that they should simulate the suns placement (from above). Has anyone exprimented with vertical light setups etc?

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willard3
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Location: Cuernavaca, Morelos, Mexico

Post by willard3 »

Lordy.....people using wikipedia again as a source of technical information.

Wikipedia is an unvetted source of bad information submitted by web denizens....

koolguymike

Post by koolguymike »

willard3 wrote:Lordy.....people using wikipedia again as a source of technical information.

Wikipedia is an unvetted source of bad information submitted by web denizens....
always with the negative attitide? always looking down on the peasants? maybe it would have been better to add a good explaination of Lux and Lumins with your comment. :fluch: this type of attitude isnt why i come here, but to share and learn, not to be critisized.

Tuppy_Glossop

Post by Tuppy_Glossop »

Just because it is unattributable doesn't make the information incorrect. I wouldn't reference it in an academic paper (indeed I tell students not to do so) but it is a good place to start the search for understanding.

safi

Post by safi »

Anyway, back to lights.....

I want to grow under lights for the winter and have read through all the stuff I can find. I am on a VERY tight budget and only need to grow about half a dozen plants, am I right in assuming that the less plants you have the less light you need (to a point)?

What I really want to do is rig up a couple of energy saving lightbulbs (it says on the box that 20w = 100w of a normal bulb) one cool and one warm to cover the full spectrum, I will make reflectors from foil baking trays and sit my plants on a heat mat to keep them warm.

Aside from the fact that it sounds like a complete lash up is there any reason why it will not work??

Thanks,

Safi

ps. don't want any expensive alternative suggestions, aside from the fact that I have no money, I can't get any of the stuff here in Portugal. :roll:

Don

Post by Don »

Is it ok to resurrect an old thread?...I found it interesting.

In response to Safi I've vegged plants successfully under 36watts,(2 x 600mm 18w fluoro batten) so I can't see why your idea wouldn't work. But, couldn't you overwinter them outside under cover where you are?

BTW, if you want to make a cheap reflector. Get a 20 litre round can, the type cooking oil comes in. Cut it down the middle lengthwise, mount a bulb holder at each end...et voila.

It's probably best if you wash the can out well first :lol:

Clockworkdog

Post by Clockworkdog »

Have just looked through this thread today and also found it very interesing - thanks for resurecting it Don!

I've just bought a couple of 30w spiral daylight energy saving bulbs (equaivalent to 300watts non-energy saving) and will use these on my little plants on the window sill. I'm using desk lamps with the swing arms so that I can position them well.

I've just got 2 Dorset Naga's to germinate in 9 days using my unheated propagator. The air temperature in it was around 23.5 deg celcius. Have a load of other stuff in there too. Maybe really too early for all of this but we shall see. I shall plant another lot in the middle of January.

Cheers

Andy

Clockworkdog

Post by Clockworkdog »

Damn it - couldn't resist - just ordered a CFL 200 watt 6400K with reflector. Have the perfect 5 foot tall wardrobe for an indoor grow cupboard - and Mrs Clockworkdog has given me her blessing!

Clockworkdog

Post by Clockworkdog »

Davetaylor wrote:I got my hands on 2x200w CFL's for 30 quid each (blue and red) now all i need to get is a reflector and start building a grow room in the loft, i'm not going full blown hydro yet still gonna use soil and see what difference the lights make
That's a bloomin good price for the bulbs. How come so cheap?

I'm sticking to soil at mo.

Cheers

Andy

Ralph_Hilton

Post by Ralph_Hilton »

I'd say good lighting has a lot more effect than switching to hydro. Good lighting and soil produce better growth than hydro and inadequate lighting.

tugela_tony

Post by tugela_tony »

Ralph_Hilton wrote:I'd say good lighting has a lot more effect than switching to hydro. Good lighting and soil produce better growth than hydro and inadequate lighting.
yes and no. Under lights the amount of light is the limiting factor. But my experience is interesting - my fluoro setup works out at 25W/sq.ft.(inadequate lighting?) but hydro plants seem to do better than soil, and changing from hand watering to continuous drip-feed increased growth dramatically. I'm surprised they grow at all. I wonder if tubes are maybe the best fluoros vs. cfl, because the light is more evenly distributed, and the plants are closer to the light source on average?

Ralph_Hilton

Post by Ralph_Hilton »

25 watts/sq. ft. seems quite adequate. The effectiveness of hand watering vs. drip feed has a additional factor of oxygenization. If the water is lacking oxygen then I'd expect poorer results with hand watering.

tugela_tony

Post by tugela_tony »

probably o2 is better, but they get constant supply, better control of ph/ec too, and I don't forget to water them anymore. I'll have to try some nagas and see how they like 25w/ft2..

piechu

Re: Growing under lights

Post by piechu »

Will be HPS lamp enough for my plants or should I invest in MH lamp for veg?

mattfuzzy

Re: Growing under lights

Post by mattfuzzy »

as far as i know piechu one does one job the other does a different one, wikipedia should tell you the functions of each bulb (hps and mh are defined by the bulb type as far as i know, the ballast and reflector unit should hold any type of bulb (that they are designed to, for example mines a 400w it will only hold UPTO 400w bulbs), mine has a grolux bulb in at the moment (came with the light) it provides both red and blue spectrums (although more blue than red so should give better veg growth than flower) i think mh are for veg and hps (sodium) are for flower, so if you want the light just for flower/fruit then use hps (although i would look into it more, google is your friend aswell as wikipedia)
-matt

edit: i also heard not to expect plants to grow chillis unless they are under a 600w bulb, dont know how true this is (mite set fruit under a 400w for all i know) but they require a huge amount of light for fruit.

best for overwintering is to snip right down to a few sets of leaves, and store away in the house somewhere if you only have a few plants, they will survive, my chiltepins did. then just take them out at the start of the growing season and use a grow light to veg again and normal sunlight for fruit in the summer.

piechu

Re: Growing under lights

Post by piechu »

i know about spectrum given by each bulb but i`m puzzling about effects with using mh+hps and using only hps for veg and flo. is mh+hps much better or can i use only hps with good effects?
it will be my first chili indoor (i`ve some experience with other plants ;) ) and i don`t know exactly what kind of light use for my peppers.


.sorry for my english. ;-)

edit:
600w? it`s a lot of light...
i tought 150w hps/mh will be enough for my box...

mattfuzzy

Re: Growing under lights

Post by mattfuzzy »

only for veging aparently, id only veg them under lights and then put them outside in a greenhouse for flowering because they need so much and lights for that are expensive to run.
using just one of the bulbs will give a little of the other spectrum but not much, so if you want growth use the veg bulb and then put them outside to flower/fruit, if you really want to try and flower with lights then id say minimum of 400w and the flower bulb, if you just used a flower bulb they would try to flower i guess, and prob wouldnt give much veg growth, not 100% on that to be honest.
-matt

piechu

Re: Growing under lights

Post by piechu »

so i haven`t any chance to grow fruits under 150W lamp?
if not, i will keep my plants on veg in box, under lights and on flo i`ll put them outside although in the begining i wanted to keep them from seed to fruits in box ;-)
and one more question:
on veg 20/4 or 18/6
and on flo 12/12 light?
thanks for help

mattfuzzy

Re: Growing under lights

Post by mattfuzzy »

i would ask a few other people (there are some who use lights alot and stuff) but personaly id say with 150w you havent a chance to grow fruit on them.
i would say 16 to 18 hours a day perminant, chillis dont need a different photoperiod to "switch" to flowering, i think the light spectrum does that.
but in general for plants i think its 16 - 18 hours veg and 12 for flowering, just not chillis (not sure about tomatos though as their kinda the same family)
-matt

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